Chiropractic research
Question:
– Self-Defense IS a matter of CHOICE! When women are disarmed, a rapist will never hear – Stop or I’ll shoot!
>have YOU personally ever had Chiropractic care? > Yes.
and how long did you give it to work? >More patients are killed by MD’s than chiropractors. > More patients lives are saved by MD’s than chiropractors.
I know a lot a folks whos lives have been changed by chiropractic, mine being one . A guy (retired cop now) has been going to the chiro since before i met him. I’ve known him since 1982. When I told him I was going to a chiro, his response was "damn , now you know my secret of why I’m stil able to walk. I got several friends who swear by chiros. >I’ll take my chances with chiropractors. > Who will you take your chances with any of the following?:
By chances I meant safety wise:::::: quit reading what you want to read into it…… > 1) Early stage Malignant melanoma > 2) Insulin dependent diabetes mellitus > 3) Bacterial meningitis > 4) Hodgkin’s Lymphoma > 5) Strep throat > 6) Addison’s Disease
Nobody has ever said chiros cure everything. My chiro FROM DAY ONE has said that if she comes cross anything she can’t treat and she knows there are things out of her ability, she’ll refer me to the proper place (she’s not above working with other meds. I don’t think ANY chiro is…… That’s just what YOU want to read into it. I cross these bridges if and when I get to them…. until then I ‘ll use PREVENTIVE medicine which is a prt of alt med….. > If you answered that you would take your chances with chiropractic > with any of the above then you likely will end up dead and > chiropractic would have killed them due to an act of omission > (compared to acts of commission). > You see chiropractors cannot successfully treat certain illnesses > which have very effective conventional treatment that can be life > saving.
No body has ever said they did, I know I haven’t! > But if you choose to go with chiropractic because you believe it to be > effective and with fewer side effects then I will defend your right to > make that choice.
thank you and i will defend your right to poison your body with whatever you want to and take the risks with doctors…. Not putting down all drs, Point is there are good and bad drs , just like there are good and bad chiros, auto mechanics, lawyers, cops, plumbers, photographers – etc! > However I will exercise my right of free speech and tell you that I think
you would be foolish to make that choice. And I’ll exercise my freedom of speech and tell you that you are a fool for depending on only the traditional meds. But it > is your life (death)
as it is yours…. tell ya what, Rich, You take traditional med and I take alt helth and we’ll see who lives longer , ok? 
Damn I shoulda been born politically correct, life would been soooooo much easier
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Yeah Peter, people are dropping like flies from going to the chiropractor, LOL. I dont adjust the cervical spine every visit. I do recommend that people get chiropractic care much like someone goes to a dentist. You dont see people not going to a dentist because of the MUCH HIGHER risks associated with that. I believe that debilitating back pain makes a cavity feel like a walk in the park. — Rissew Chiropractic Center at Birkdale 8600 Sam Furr Rd. Suite 180 Huntersville, NC 28078 704-892-2282 http://www.thechiropractor.net
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> John Badanes > [TEO.]
Wow, i dont know where you got that stuff. I would leave it up there but it was a novel and too long to scroll through. I dont have time to answer all that but I will say one thing. That is not even close to the experience I have had going to chiropractic school. I have been an honor student since high school. Graduated magna cum laude from Univ. of New Hamshire and went to chiropractic school. It was the hardest thing I have ever dont. We didnt learn the "subluxation dogma" that you refer to. I know the entire human anatomy to a ridiculous degree. The stress we had to endure to get through school was tremendous. About 1/2 of our class quit or failed by the time we graduated. You are making judgements about that which you know nothing about. Visit the NYCC campus in Seneca Falls and walk around and talk to people. I guarantee you will find a new respect for chiropractic. Some of the most brilliant people I have met teach at that school and have attended that school. I must disagree with you vehemently. — Rissew Chiropractic Center at Birkdale 8600 Sam Furr Rd. Suite 180 Huntersville, NC 28078 704-892-2282 http://www.thechiropractor.net
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> Another example of Atlas’ critical thinking disorder, this time comparing > apples with oranges Next thing you know, he’ll start claiming that his 3.3 > years in DC school equals 4 years of medical school plus 3 years of residency.
Medical school has exactly the same length and number of credit hours as chiropractic school (and believe me chiropractic school is very difficult). — Rissew Chiropractic Center at Birkdale 8600 Sam Furr Rd. Suite 180 Huntersville, NC 28078 704-892-2282 http://www.thechiropractor.net
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<< Organization: RoadRunner – California >> I thought you lived in Hawaii…..
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->have YOU personally ever had Chiropractic care? > Yes. >More patients are killed by MD’s than chiropractors. > More patients lives are saved by MD’s than chiropractors. >I’ll take my chances with chiropractors. > Who will you take your chances with any of the following?: > 1) Early stage Malignant melanoma > 2) Insulin dependent diabetes mellitus > 3) Bacterial meningitis > 4) Hodgkin’s Lymphoma > 5) Strep throat > 6) Addison’s Disease > If you answered that you would take your chances with chiropractic > with any of the above then you likely will end up dead and > chiropractic would have killed them due to an act of omission > (compared to acts of commission). > You see chiropractors cannot successfully treat certain illnesses > which have very effective conventional treatment that can be life > saving. > You also see that AMA cannot successfully treat many conditions,
and so they perform harmful "operations". – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But if you choose to go with chiropractic because you believe it to be > effective and with fewer side effects then I will defend your right to > make that choice. However I will exercise my right of free speech and > tell you that I think you would be foolish to make that choice. But it > is your life (death) > Aloha, > Rich > Respect is something you give in order to get. > Bernard Malamud
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >It couldn’t even fix Jan Drew’s headaches —- or at least she says " I was >a patient of Diamond Headache Clinic for years" —– suggests a rather >mediocre treatment outcome. > I was a patient of Speranza Dental Clinic for years. I guess >they offered mediocre treatment outcomes too. >Atlas
Another example of Atlas’ critical thinking disorder, this time comparing apples with oranges Next thing you know, he’ll start claiming that his 3.3 years in DC school equals 4 years of medical school plus 3 years of residency.
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Don’t you think the risk should be evaluated by the patient and practitioner? I just saw something on the Discovery Channel about a woman who was in intractable permanent pain after a face lift. That may be a more likely outcome than a stroke after a neck manipulation. Not to mention the risk of anesthesia. I mean, so what? I’m not going to start bashing face lifts because of it. It is elective surgery and it’s ok with me if someone wants to have it. When I get my neck manipulated it treats neck stiffness and pain. I no longer dread turning my neck to back out of the driveway. That happens to be more important to me than a face lift. But hey guys, each to his or her own. BL
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>x-no-archive: yes >>>It couldn’t even fix Jan Drew’s headaches —- or at least she says " I >was >>>a patient of Diamond Headache Clinic for years" —– suggests a rather >>>mediocre treatment outcome. >> I was a patient of Speranza Dental Clinic for years. I guess >>they offered mediocre treatment outcomes too. >Another example of Atlas’ critical thinking disorder, > Another example of Ilsa’s projection.
No, Kevin, you are the nerd working the projector. >this time comparing >apples with oranges > Nope. Chiropractic care and dental care are VERY similar. > Ilsa/Andrew knows this – but won’t admit it, because of his >obvious intellectual dishonesty.
You have totally lost it, Atlas. Dental care and Chiropractic are quite dissimilar. I wonder if you consider cavities and subluxations to be the same? >Next thing you know, he’ll start claiming that his 3.3 >years in DC school equals 4 years of medical school > Actually, my chiropractic school was more extensive (in total >number of classroom hours) – than what medical students get.
Only in your imagination, Kevvie.
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> x-no-archive: yes > I almost forgot. Here’s a link to one of my webpages which > shows how much education a chiroprator gets vs. an allopathic doctor. > http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/Education.html > Chiropractic: 4,485 > Allopathic: 4,248
Well, your figures don’t quite agree with the data published by various other sources, including several chiropractic sources (2,3). Besides that you really can’t compare hours at one school to hours at another school. "Math" taught at your local community college is substantially less rigorous than "math" taught at MIT. As you have pointed out yourself, most chiropractic students take a double course load of classes which implies that the rigour and content of those 4485 hours of classroom participation are relatively low. Medical students are far more academically competitive than chiropractic students(1), yet there is no way that they could double up on medical school classes. After completing medical school, primary care physicians then go on to complete and additional three years of training(4). Chiropractors don’t. 1) Doxey TT, et al. Comparison of entrance requirements for health care professions. Journal of Manipulative and Physiologic Therapeutics. 1997 Feb. 20(2):86-91. 2) Agency for American Health Care Policy and Research: Chiropractic Training. http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter3.htm 3) AHCPR: Licensure and Legal Scope of Practice. http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter5.htm 4) Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education. http://www.acgme.org Additional Resources: AHCPR: Chiropractic in the Health Care System. http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter7.htm Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States. http://www.fsmb.org/index.htm Federation of Chiropractic Licensing Boards of the United States. http://www.fclb.org/bullet2.asp
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Actually, yes, the chiropractor informed me when he took my medical history and told me why. But I think the risk is insignificant really. There’s not much indication of whether or not those who have some sort of adverse reaction might not have had the same thing happen sans the adjustment, perhaps at a slightly later time. Chiropractors have patients sign thing just like surgeons do. Their malpractice insurance is very low. They just don’t get sued very often. I think the insurance industry knows more about risks of things like this than I do. Now I can’t remember their malpractice insurance, but somehow I determined that driving to the chiropractor’s office entailed more risk than getting an adjustment. There’s hardly anything that we do in life that doesn’t involve some risk. I try to avoid the large risks, and certainly do wear my shoulder straps. I have been known to ride my bike on city streets, but *with* a helmet. Let’s try to keep things in perspective. BL
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> x-no-archive: yes > I almost forgot. Here’s a link to one of my webpages which > shows how much education a chiroprator gets vs. an allopathic doctor. > http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/Education.html > Chiropractic: 4,485 > Allopathic: 4,248
Your figures also, rather cleverly, point to "classroom hours". Remember that only the first two years of medical school are spent in the classroom. I don’t believe that your numbers are particularly accurate and you don’t reference a source. Never the less, _after_ completing the first two years of medical school, medical students spend another two years (roughly 4000 hours) doing clinical clerkships in addition to classroom hours. According to the AHCPR, chiropractic students only receive about 1600 hours of training outside of the classroom. Primary care physicians receive another 3 years (6000 hours) of training for a total of 10,000 hours compared to the total of 1600 hours that chiropractors receive. Although I know that you don’t agree, the data supports the hypothesis that chiropractors are on average less academically competitive students who receive substantially less training than physicians. 1) Doxey TT, et al. Comparison of entrance requirements for health care professions. Journal of Manipulative and Physiologic Therapeutics. 1997 Feb. 20(2):86-91. 2) Agency for American Health Care Policy and Research: Chiropractic Training. http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter3.htm 3) AHCPR: Licensure and Legal Scope of Practice. http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter5.htm 4) Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education. http://www.acgme.org Additional Resources: AHCPR: Chiropractic in the Health Care System. http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/ahcpr/chapter7.htm Federation of State Medical Boards of the United States. http://www.fsmb.org/index.htm Federation of Chiropractic Licensing Boards of the United States. http://www.fclb.org/bullet2.asp
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Chiropractic Research Evidence for the Effectiveness of Chiropractic Numerous studies throughout the world have shown that chiropractic treatment, including manipulative therapy and spinal adjustment, is both safe and effective. The following are excerpts from a few of the more recent studies: For Acute Low-Back Problems: "For patients with acute low-back symptoms without radiculopathy, the scientific evidence suggests spinal manipulation is effective in reducing pain and perhaps speeding recovery within the first month of symptoms." – Clinical Practice Guidelines, AHCPR (1994) For Long-Term Low-Back Problems: "There is strong evidence that manipulation is more effective than a placebo treatment for chronic low-back pain or than usual care by the general practitioner, bed rest, analgesics and massage." – Spine, Van Tulder and Bouter et al. (1997) "…improvement in all patients at three years was about 29% more in those treated by chiropractors than in those treated by the hospitals. The beneficial effect of chiropractic on pain was particularly clear." – British Medical Journal, Meade et al. (1995) "Manipulative therapy and physiotherapy are better than general practitioner and placebo treatment. Furthermore, manipulative therapy is slightly better than physiotherapy after 12 months." – British Medical Journal, Koes et al. (1992) For Pain: "…patients suffering from back and/or neck complaints experience chiropractic care as an effective means of resolving or ameliorating pain and functional impairments, thus reinforcing previous results showing the benefits of chiropractic treatment for back and neck pain." – Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics, Verhoef et al. (1997) "…for the management of low-back pain, chiropractic care is the most effective treatment, and it should be fully integrated into the government’s health care system." – The Manga Report (1993) For Headaches: "Cervical spine manipulation was associated with significant improvement in headache outcomes in trials involving patients with neck pain and/or neck dysfunction and headache." – Duke Evidence Report, McCrory, Penzlen, Hasselblad, Gray (2001) "The results of this study show that spinal manipulative therapy is an effective treatment for tension headaches. . . Four weeks after cessation of treatment. . . the patients who received spinal manipulative therapy experienced a sustained therapeutic benefit in all major outcomes in contrast to the patients that received amitriptyline therapy, who reverted to baseline values." – Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics, Boline et al. (1995) For the Elderly: "[Elderly] chiropractic users were less likely to have been hospitalized, less likely to have used a nursing home, more likely to report a better health status, more likely to exercise vigorously, and more likely to be mobile in the community. In addition, they were less likely to use prescription drugs." – Topics in Clinical Chiropractic, Coulter et al. (1996)
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>"The results of this study show that spinal manipulative therapy is an >effective treatment for tension headaches. . . Four weeks after cessation of >treatment. . . the patients who received spinal manipulative therapy >experienced a sustained therapeutic benefit in all major outcomes in >contrast to the patients that received amitriptyline therapy, who reverted >to baseline values." – Journal of Manipulative and Physiological >Therapeutics, Boline et al. (1995)
Most studies supporting chiropractic treatments are not properly controlled, like this one. The JMPT has some appallingly bad clinical studies in it. You can ‘prove’ anything with bad science. One such very badly designed and conducted study in the JMPT wants to push the view that spinal manipulation is good for colic in babies. And it is with this kind of nonsense that we take issue with chiropractic, rather than its use for fro back pain. This is all public relations stuff, and it would be fine if chiropractic care was, in general, anything like this. There has been a further case of stroke in a young woman after neck manipulation. It took only took five manipulations to get this one. What are the odds in a lifetime of "adjustments", as some chiropractors recommend is needed for health? Peter Moran
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have YOU personally ever had Chiropractic care? More patients are killed by MD’s than chiropractors. I’ll take my chances with chiropractors. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> There has been a further case of stroke in a young woman after neck > manipulation. It took only took five manipulations to get this one. What > are the odds in a lifetime of "adjustments", as some chiropractors recommend > is needed for health? > Peter Moran
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> One such very badly designed and conducted study in the JMPT wants to push > the view that spinal manipulation is good for colic in babies. And it is > with this kind of nonsense that we take issue with chiropractic, rather than > its use for fro back pain. > Peter Moran
Can you comment on this posting:
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> One such very badly designed and conducted study in the JMPT wants to push > the view that spinal manipulation is good for colic in babies. And it is > with this kind of nonsense that we take issue with chiropractic, rather >than > its use for fro back pain. > Peter Moran >Can you comment on this posting:
??? ——can’t find it. Peter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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>have YOU personally ever had Chiropractic care? >More patients are killed by MD’s than chiropractors. >I’ll take my chances with chiropractors.
Would you have your neck manipulated simply because some chiropractors believe it is needed to avoid illness? As Rich imples, the risks of chiropractic neck manipulation would be acceptable if it was known to cure any important illness. It couldn’t even fix Jan Drew’s headaches —- or at least she says " I was a patient of Diamond Headache Clinic for years" —– suggests a rather mediocre treatment outcome. Peter
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>have YOU personally ever had Chiropractic care?
I never jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, and do not have to to know that it is not good for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->More patients are killed by MD’s than chiropractors. >I’ll take my chances with chiropractors. > There has been a further case of stroke in a young woman after neck > manipulation. It took only took five manipulations to get this one. >What > are the odds in a lifetime of "adjustments", as some chiropractors >recommend > is needed for health? > Peter Moran
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<< I never jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, and do not have to to know that it is not good for me. >> That’s all in your prespective, Mark. It might be good for you, and it might be good for others that you would jump. With reference to chiropractic research, and chiropractic treatment, its a matter of choice, just like your choice not to jump off of the bridge.
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