What works good for sinus infections?
Question:
> 1. The question was "What works good for sinus infections?" > An "infection" is a live pathogenic colony, typically emitting toxins or > otherwise damaging/destroying tissues. You can isolate/encapsulate the > microorganisms (create cysts of sorts), kill it, neutralize the toxins produced > by it, or stop bioactivity/reproduction of the cells. So please correct me: what > does chiropractic do? Encapsulate? Kill? Neutralize toxins? Bacteriostasis?
As a point of clarification, sinusitis (especially chronic)can have non-infectious etiologies such as an allergic component (rhinitis) or sinus/nasal polyps for instance. 2. "Magnetic hands."> > I don’t think that "modern chiropractic theory" has any more validity than the > original concept, the foundation upon which all of chiropractic has been based > since inception: the magnetic hands of a fraud.
It was asserted a while back on this ng by a couple of chiro’s that adjustment/manipulation could briefly help in a sinusitis condition. Neither claimed that chiropractic could cure it. I don’t think that this claim/assertation is outlandish IMO. frank Before you buy.
Response:
> It’s not much fun to do but I had the same problem, snorting warm salt > water up a nostril at a time and expelling it will clean out your > sinuses and help with any infection… friend told me about it and it > does work… better then most drugs…Then gargle with listerine to > kill any residual germs in your throat..
Unfortunately, anatomy doesn’t support the argument. Snorting warm salt water is sufficiently unpleasant as to contribute to the placebo effect, but the water won’t make it into the sinus cavities (look at the physiology) – and even if it did it would not change the state of the infection (by definition). Sorry. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS
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> Henry, I could care less about Palmer, theory, who killed who.
But Tools — isn’t it your profession about which we’re talking? And aren’t you interested in its foundation, it’s theories? Doesn’t the basic philosophy of your professional life mean anything to you? It doesn’t? Okay, well…. I understand, and you get points for that attitude because nothing about the foundation of chiropractic is meaningful to any rational thinker. Of course, if you KNOW that chiropractic is fraudulent, and still do it, what does that make you? Henry — Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
> As a point of clarification, sinusitis (especially chronic)can have > non-infectious etiologies such as an allergic component (rhinitis) > or sinus/nasal polyps for instance.
We’re specifically discussing "infections." (read the subject line) But I’ll bet that a lot of chiropractors, when faced with a sinus infection, smile blandly and manipulate — knowing that most of such infections eventually clear up spontaneously and they can take the credit for it. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
UTools said that chiropractic can provide relief and HLE has switched gears trying to make it sound like UTools is claiming that chiropractic can CURE sinusitis. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Sometimes a Chiropractor can help with relief also. > U Tools — that is utterly foolish! You should be ashamed! > How in the world can a chiropractor treat a sinus infection? Due to poor > vascularization of the sinus cavities, not even a "real" doctor finds it easy to > get antibiotics in there… > And others here — even chiros — how can you let such claims go by > unchallenged? > Henry > Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
Henry, where did you get the idea that I was a Chiropractor? Are you really so slow?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Henry, I could care less about Palmer, theory, who killed who. > But Tools — isn’t it your profession about which we’re talking? And aren’t you > interested in its foundation, it’s theories? Doesn’t the basic philosophy of > your professional life mean anything to you? > It doesn’t? > Okay, well…. I understand, and you get points for that attitude because > nothing about the foundation of chiropractic is meaningful to any rational > thinker. Of course, if you KNOW that chiropractic is fraudulent, and still do > it, what does that make you? > Henry > — > Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
> We’re specifically discussing "infections." (read the subject line) > But I’ll bet that a lot of chiropractors, when faced with a sinus > infection, smile blandly and manipulate — knowing that most of such > infections eventually clear up spontaneously and they can take the credit > for it.
And I was specifically referring to the original poster’s statement of "my nose is 1/2 plugged up 90% of the time". That doesn’t sound like an acute bacterial infection. Again, many sinus/nasal congestion/problems are not true infections. frank Before you buy.
Response:
> Unfortunately, anatomy doesn’t support the argument. Snorting warm salt water > is sufficiently unpleasant as to contribute to the placebo effect, but the > water won’t make it into the sinus cavities (look at the physiology) – and > even if it did it would not change the state of the infection (by definition). > Sorry.
I guess if you’ve never been afflicted w/an acute or chronic sinus condition you may not appreciate of what may or may not work. Sinus disease is primarily a problem of decreased nasal and sinus cilia function. When these "babies" have a reduction in function the bacteria or allergans that were expelled now stay in the turbinates or sinus cavities. The mucous then becomes a breeding ground and ripe for a sinusitis. Pulsatile irrigation (with saline) simply help improves the poor turbinate function. The action of the irrigation physically removes the mucous (opening up the passages) as well as stimulating the cilia function. No placebo effect present. There are many good articles on this and I welcome that you do a search if you question any of the above. But remember, nasal and sinus cilia are the key!! frank Before you buy.
Response:
Right on Dr Frank. I know AF has left this NG, but his problem was sinus infection and he recommended using the waterpick. enry (that’s my name for him) just wants to get another flame war going. Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Unfortunately, anatomy doesn’t support the argument. Snorting warm >salt water > is sufficiently unpleasant as to contribute to the placebo effect, >but the > water won’t make it into the sinus cavities (look at the physiology) >- and > even if it did it would not change the state of the infection (by >definition). > Sorry. >I guess if you’ve never been afflicted w/an acute or chronic >sinus condition you may not appreciate of what may or may not >work. >Sinus disease is primarily a problem of decreased nasal and >sinus cilia function. When these "babies" have a reduction >in function the bacteria or allergans that were expelled now >stay in the turbinates or sinus cavities. The mucous then >becomes a breeding ground and ripe for a sinusitis. >Pulsatile irrigation (with saline) simply help improves the >poor turbinate function. The action of the irrigation physically >removes the mucous (opening up the passages) as well as >stimulating the cilia function. No placebo effect present. >There are many good articles on this and I welcome that you >do a search if you question any of the above. But remember, >nasal and sinus cilia are the key!! >frank >Before you buy.
Response:
Assuming you’ve had it medically checked out and in the absence of identifiable causes: Try "Garlic" in quite high daily dosage. It worked for me after it was recommended on this web site. You may offend your colleagues, friends and family, however, until they get used to the smell. Be sure to use either raw cloves or but good quality, concentrated tablets: I’ve found most of the capsules are not cost effective. — Wishing you an abundance of all you desire, Regards, Ray Why not visit: http://www.geocities.com/raysneways/ http://communities.msn.co.uk/RAYSNEWAYS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions? > Before you buy.
Response:
> Stan, I think you might start by eliminating all dairy products, all white > flour products, perhaps peanuts from your diet. Sometimes a Chiropractor can > help with relief also. Best Tools
Best Tools, you almost forgot.. Drink a glass of fresh urine every day. That cures everything, right? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions?
Response:
No, but snorting some could help. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stan, I think you might start by eliminating all dairy products, all white > flour products, perhaps peanuts from your diet. Sometimes a Chiropractor can > help with relief also. Best Tools > Best Tools, you almost forgot.. Drink a glass of fresh urine every > day. That cures everything, right? > > my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions?
Response:
> > Sometimes a Chiropractor can help with relief also.
U Tools — that is utterly foolish! You should be ashamed! How in the world can a chiropractor treat a sinus infection? Due to poor vascularization of the sinus cavities, not even a "real" doctor finds it easy to get antibiotics in there… And others here — even chiros — how can you let such claims go by unchallenged? Henry Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
Henry, until you ask folks who have seen the Chiro while suffering this sinus thing, your words carry little weight. I have said that I think it would help, you are offering nothing to give evidence that it would not. Based on the possibility that I have seen more in this area than you , I think my words bear consideration. Tools
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Sometimes a Chiropractor can help with relief also. > U Tools — that is utterly foolish! You should be ashamed! > How in the world can a chiropractor treat a sinus infection? Due to poor > vascularization of the sinus cavities, not even a "real" doctor finds it easy to > get antibiotics in there… > And others here — even chiros — how can you let such claims go by > unchallenged? > Henry > Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
Use a empty nose drop bottle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->It’s not much fun to do but I had the same problem, snorting warm salt >water up a nostril at a time and expelling it will clean out your >sinuses and help with any infection… friend told me about it and it >does work… better then most drugs…Then gargle with listerine to >kill any residual germs in your throat.. >Don >> my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions? >> Before you buy. >Try to see an ENT (ears,nose,throat) specialist to rule out >nasal/sinus polyps or an allergic rhinitis situation. >Use of a nasal irrigation system can be effective in many >cases as well. >frank >Before you buy.
Response:
> Henry, until you ask folks who have seen the Chiro while suffering this > sinus thing, your words carry little weight. > I have said that I think it would help, you are offering nothing to give > evidence that it would not. > Based on the possibility that I have seen more in this area than you , I > think my words bear consideration
I HAVE considered them or would not have respoded. I still reject the idea that there can be a connection between the "Magnetic Hands" of chiropractic and ANY infection. If you can prove that massage kills pathogens I’ll listen, but the evidence indicates that chiropractic is likelier to kill patients than bacteria. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
> Use a empty nose drop bottle
Actually there are commercial units available using a water pic and a special attachment to the nostril that works very well. One type is called the Grossan irrigator; these are easier to use than any manual methods. frank Before you buy.
Response:
Henry, I never said that Chiropractic "kills" infection. You twist words. Such twisting makes your purpose here paper to be less than helpful. Also I never mentioned "magnetic hands". Where did you dig that up? I will not try to explain how Chiro would help to you. You do not care for help. You only wish to try to find something to twist, and use to attack. Ultimately though people like you are only a very small mosquito in the humid air of humanity and health.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Henry, until you ask folks who have seen the Chiro while suffering this > sinus thing, your words carry little weight. > I have said that I think it would help, you are offering nothing to give > evidence that it would not. > Based on the possibility that I have seen more in this area than you , I > think my words bear consideration > I HAVE considered them or would not have respoded. > I still reject the idea that there can be a connection between the > "Magnetic Hands" of chiropractic and ANY infection. > If you can prove that massage kills pathogens I’ll listen, but the evidence > indicates that chiropractic is likelier to kill patients than bacteria. > Henry > Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
> It’s not much fun to do but I had the same problem, snorting warm salt > water up a nostril at a time and expelling it will clean out your > sinuses and help with any infection… friend told me about it and it > does work… better then most drugs…Then gargle with listerine to > kill any residual germs in your throat.. > Don
best suggestion i’ve seen so far. along with the see-the-doctor-first mantra. course, par for the course, those posters who visit mha **just to heckle** don’t HAVE any suggestions. (digger, HLE, et al) also, note that you can make your own listerine type mouthwash solution with drops of essential oils of red thyme, spearmint and eucalyptus (added to water). some people just use tea tree EO in water. obviously, do not swallow. (would you drink your store-bought listerine?) "Whatever is causing the Joan Collin’s ‘tude, deal with it. Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever…but get over it." Cordelia http://home.wxs.nl/~hal00055/quotes.html
Response:
> Henry, I never said that Chiropractic "kills" infection. You twist words. > Such twisting makes your purpose here paper to be less than helpful. Also I > never mentioned "magnetic hands". Where did you dig that up?
I apologize — my post was clearly unclear. 1. The question was "What works good for sinus infections?" An "infection" is a live pathogenic colony, typically emitting toxins or otherwise damaging/destroying tissues. You can isolate/encapsulate the microorganisms (create cysts of sorts), kill it, neutralize the toxins produced by it, or stop bioactivity/reproduction of the cells. So please correct me: what does chiropractic do? Encapsulate? Kill? Neutralize toxins? Bacteriostasis? 2. "Magnetic hands." Chiropractic’s founder and patriarch was David Daniel Palmer, among the very few with an 8th grade education to call himself "Doctor." He was an itinerant handyman, a bee keeper, and a grocer, whose life and that of his family was speckled with multiple business failures. One day he decided that he had magnetic hands (reference Paul Caster) that could cure anything; he then applied those hands to the spine of a deaf janitor — restoring his hearing in the same manner that faith healers operate today. Ultimately, D.D. Palmer was killed (it’s uncertain whether it was deliberate) by his son, who became the successor to the Palmer chiropractic empire that grew into the structure we see today. I don’t think that "modern chiropractic theory" has any more validity than the original concept, the foundation upon which all of chiropractic has been based since inception: the magnetic hands of a fraud. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
> my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions? > Before you buy.
Try to see an ENT (ears,nose,throat) specialist to rule out nasal/sinus polyps or an allergic rhinitis situation. Use of a nasal irrigation system can be effective in many cases as well. frank Before you buy.
Response:
It’s not much fun to do but I had the same problem, snorting warm salt water up a nostril at a time and expelling it will clean out your sinuses and help with any infection… friend told me about it and it does work… better then most drugs…Then gargle with listerine to kill any residual germs in your throat.. Don – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions? > Before you buy. >Try to see an ENT (ears,nose,throat) specialist to rule out >nasal/sinus polyps or an allergic rhinitis situation. >Use of a nasal irrigation system can be effective in many >cases as well. >frank >Before you buy.
Response:
Henry, I could care less about Palmer, theory, who killed who. I’m only concerned about what works. I do not care so much about why. I think that all this stuff about "theory" is fine if one wants to do a little mental masturbation. But for the folks out there with real and current problems, masturbating your brain won’t help them. If you want to know if Chiro is helpful with sinus infections, GO TO A CHIROPRACTOR WHILE YOU HAVE ONE. Or better yet go to Chiropractic College.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Henry, I never said that Chiropractic "kills" infection. You twist words. > Such twisting makes your purpose here paper to be less than helpful. Also I > never mentioned "magnetic hands". Where did you dig that up? > I apologize — my post was clearly unclear. > 1. The question was "What works good for sinus infections?" > An "infection" is a live pathogenic colony, typically emitting toxins or > otherwise damaging/destroying tissues. You can isolate/encapsulate the > microorganisms (create cysts of sorts), kill it, neutralize the toxins produced > by it, or stop bioactivity/reproduction of the cells. So please correct me: what > does chiropractic do? Encapsulate? Kill? Neutralize toxins? Bacteriostasis? > 2. "Magnetic hands." > Chiropractic’s founder and patriarch was David Daniel Palmer, among the very few > with an 8th grade education to call himself "Doctor." He was an itinerant > handyman, a bee keeper, and a grocer, whose life and that of his family was > speckled with multiple business failures. One day he decided that he had > magnetic hands (reference Paul Caster) that could cure anything; he then applied > those hands to the spine of a deaf janitor — restoring his hearing in the same > manner that faith healers operate today. Ultimately, D.D. Palmer was killed > (it’s uncertain whether it was deliberate) by his son, who became the successor > to the Palmer chiropractic empire that grew into the structure we see today. > I don’t think that "modern chiropractic theory" has any more validity than the > original concept, the foundation upon which all of chiropractic has been based > since inception: the magnetic hands of a fraud. > Henry > Remove the OBVIOUS
Response:
my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions? Before you buy.
Response:
Stan, I think you might start by eliminating all dairy products, all white flour products, perhaps peanuts from your diet. Sometimes a Chiropractor can help with relief also. Best Tools – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > my nose is 1/2 clogged 90 % of the time. do u have any suggestions? > Before you buy.
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